Simulated Death

Obviously, something that has been on the news so much we can't avoid thinking about it (try as we might) is the torture of prisoners in Guantanamo and what should be done about it. There are obvious ramifications on all fronts, and I really appreciate how this issue transcends (for the most part) party politics. Unfortunately that taint is still there, but on the street, from what I've heard from people I've talked about, being a Republican or Democrat is pretty much irrelevant to where you stand on the issue. I don't have a legal degree, I am not a policy maker. I'm an United States citizen. So here is what I think.

1) Is Waterboarding torture?
The justification for this not being torture was that it didn't do any lasting harm and would not cause prolonged suffering. You're just simulating drowning. Only then another memo came out that said water MAY be inhaled. In the words of Aandail: At that point, you're not simulating drowning. You're actually drowning. You're simulating death.
Yes, there's a doctor present. You know, the Holocaust had doctors present, too. The logistics are pretty much irrelevant to me.

2) Should those at the top be prosecuted?
I agree with those who say that the people who had to actually perform these 'enhanced interrogation techniques' should not be punished because they were doing what they were told. I remember 'A Few Good Men', we basically program soldiers to not question, and they are already in extreme circumstances. I can't imagine that they send the fluffy bunny guards to Guantanamo and I'm sure the mental toll of being down there, with people who may be responsible for the deaths of Americans is easy on them. And it's comforting like I said that both sides are very supportive of the troops.

Well, except those people who try to blame them. Or who put them in prison for it, and then let them sit there for FIVE YEARS and only now are saying 'Oh, no, we shouldn't get mad at them'. But that's a totally different post.

So then the question is: What do we do with the people at the top? To be honest, though my populist rage rants that they should all be taken to court, 1) We simply do NOT have enough information to make any kind of legitimate judgment and 2)...it's never going to happen. We are never going to prosecute the former President of the United States for something like this, even if we wanted to. So I leave that sort of question to the policy makers.

3) Is it effective?

This then is the crux of my issue. The former Vice President, who had these files in his OFFICE, says that we were able to produce good information from using these techniques. He has provided (admittedly not much) evidence to say so. *Maybe* lives have been saved through this.

The other side says that you can't trust information obtained under extreme duress because the victim will be tempted to say something, ANYTHING to make it stop. Furthermore, if the victim IS a terrorist, they have probably been trained, much like our soldiers have, to withstand interrogation techniques such as these.

Perhaps most problematic is the fact that because WE, the United States, did this...terrorist organizations actually get MORE converts. This is a great recruitment tool because it makes US the badguys and THEM, that is, the terrorists, the victims. Apparently Torture=Door to Topsy Turvy Land.

...

But all of this is absolutely irrelevant. It does not MATTER if torture was effective, I don't know why we are even discussing it. There is never a single justifiable reason to put a human being through processes like this.
I don't CARE what they did, this is NEVER okay.

We forgive soldiers in warfare because war is a terrible terrible thing and people feel forced to do terrible things in war. And to me...this wasn't war. These were prisoners, captives, many of whom were not given a trial, we don't even know if they DID anything wrong.

I've been told by some people, that this attitude of mine makes me Un-American. And do you know why?

Because I am unpatriotic enough to consider ALL human life EQUALLY valuable, whether you are white, Arab, black, female, Muslim, poor or disabled. And I hate to say it, but here in the U.S. if you aren't a rich, White Protestant male, the odds are stacked a bit against you. This is changing, for sure, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. But for me, I consider all life important, and if it isn't okay to do to US, it isn't okay for us to do it to THEM.

So it doesn't matter to me if we were scared after 9/11, or how much evidence Dick Cheney, the most aptly named man ever, produces. Torture is morally WRONG. Always, under all circumstances.

I just hope people can get over the petty political squabbling and get this cleared away so we can move on to other issues.

Here, have a video.

http://www.rockcookiebottom.com/post/97815385/109-for-this-song-i-took-language-directly-from

~C

~EDIT: ALSO...I would LOVE to see Sean Hannity actually follow through on his word and get waterboarded for charity. I hope he doesn't disgrace the soldier's families by backing out after he talked so big. Can you think of many people who deserve it more?